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for those people especially of conventional you know um regulators and so on can you share with us I mean how have you been

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interacting with them. ฎspecially

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last year when there were several incidents happened to digital asset industry

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// yeah sure so

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in

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in Vietnam I can talk a little bit about it uh maybe I'll put some context around it and probably talk a little bit more of how

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we do a little bit more on the west and how that kind of comes into how Vietnam would kind of look into that um so I'll start off with kind of how Vietnam would look into it so Vietnam looks into it as

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it is something that's there they understand it they know that it's um

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the people that use it right so buying and selling is okay

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. everything else which you see is is uh exactly what they say so anything that's received right is illegal

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, right? so it's the same thing like any other country you can't go into

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say Thailand and say I'm going to go buy something with US Dollars it's exactly the same thing right but if you use it as a method of

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for what we do in new Trump a is like we'll go and say you're taking Neutron pay is a method but at the end

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, receiver is always going to receive that currency

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, so in this case Vietnam would receive that currency

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all right so that usually helps us regulators and say

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. It's okay with them

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uh from this standpoint but it is still kind of being examined right so they still look at it

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and they say we want to figure out how it actually works how we're going to get

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a perfect framework around it so kind of if you look at it there's other Frameworks

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are around southeast Asia so you can look at like Japan South Korea

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, Japan being a very good kind of indicator because they they were

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in the industry for a while um and that's kind of how

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then I'm kind of looks at it in a way right from from my perspective of who we've talked with

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um and it kind of framing it a little bit more into How the West kind of takes it because I'm from Canada

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is Canada is really structured right so we have compliance and Frameworks of how digital assets come into kind of

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Fear or traditional um is that it's all the same they look at it as it's it's Finance right so if you're transacting with

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Bitcoin or anything like that they look at it as it's the same thing as you would comply with like AML and kyc

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processes right so as long as you follow that that follows the same kind of framework and then that will eventually kind of

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mold into how ฆoutheast Asia does it I believe

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they don't want to look at it as something extra

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I  believe what what we've seen is that they want to do it as

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Amendment

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right because if you're creating a whole bunch of new Frameworks and policies

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that don't apply to chat fee which is

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what we do every day it's just kind of a complete waste of time

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so that's that's kind of what I've seen so far is that they they want to kind of amend into

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what is what we have existing and then kind of roll up

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uh

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what we can do with Bitcoin and digital assets

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Thank you very much since you mentioned Japan that this Mrs in Japan has been developed quite substantially

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in the past years and can I ask um cultural song in order to share your experience in

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dealing with The Regulators government authorities who initially they might not have full understanding about

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what Bitcoin is

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. Yeah so my experience dealing with uh the Japanese Regulators I'm based in Japan and I have

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Bitcoin company there

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back in 2019 2020 I launched a experimental uh non-

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30 lightning based auction platform

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and so

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the Baseline that you need to understand about Japanese regulation is

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mount gox

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so Mount Cox happened back in 2014 Mount Cox was uh based in Tokyo

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and that

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was probably the initial spark that

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with the fire and the regulators and they decided to come in

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and so Japanese regulation is very heavily focused on protecting uh

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uh custody usersl so exchanges for example

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custody user funds and the main thing uh the Japanese Regulators are interested in protect

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thing is is from is uh

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H hacks on custodians and from um

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bad custodians basically like STX for example uh

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last year Japanese regulations were successful in protecting Japanese FDX users

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so

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interestingly enough that approach Works however

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I believe that

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while we should be striving for a non-custodial uses and usage of Bitcoin and

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these evacuations

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kind of nudge

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developers towards that direction

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it it's also true that non-custodial Bitcoin wallets and services

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tend to have

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a little more uh unfamiliar user experience for new users users

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so uh 1 thing that I wish that Japanese Regulators would allow

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some kind of exemption for smaller scale custodians

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, so that you can have things like tip Bots or

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you know

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very small but uh tangible experiences that

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get people's first step into Bitcoin um

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yeah that's something that's very difficult to do with Japanese uh regulations focused on custody right now

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well once you mentioned about the um um small custodian can you elaborate that term a little bit further I mean what kind of

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what kind of amount is small medium and large of course so because of Japan's

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experienced with Mount gox and then after that even in 2018 there were several hacks at Japanese

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changes

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um

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the custody was are actually

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combined with exchange regulations so even if you're not providing services to users where they can buy or

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tell Bitcoin

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uh you still need the same exact license that a uh exchange like a big

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change with need and it costs

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anywhere between 500000 US dollars to a million US dollars a year

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uh paperwork and compliance cost

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to maintain that license

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so it's not feasible for small-scale custodians to uh comply with these

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regulation so I would say it's of course very difficult to uh draw a queer wine

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where you know

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this is the line

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a custodian should be exempt and this is the line where they should comply with regulations but uh

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hopeful that eventually they would uh

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carve out some kind of exemption for

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uh you know

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let's say something like twenty dollars per user is fine or 100 dollars per user is fine

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like that

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wonderful thank you I'll come back a bit later on um on another topic well let's move come closer

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from Canada to Japan and now to um Southeast Asian country can I ask you experience Dominic I mean you are German of course

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but you based in a Vietnam for a decade already can you share with us I mean would be wonderful if you can compare

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to economies as far as regulations upon Bitcoin is concerned

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Dominic place

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yeah so I think like with the location of our business um we have made already a choice

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a choice like which regulations we prefer basically

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so like in Germany everything is like you see it generally in the economy it's not a very

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friendly place for entrepreneurship

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a lot of the big companies we talked about it before in Germany if you just look at the stock market index it's like all these companies

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dedicates all there's nothing really new coming up

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and I was also early involved in the Bitcoin Community is over there like

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Germany I think

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nowadays again has 1 of the strongest Bitcoin communities in Europe

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back from the potential from the the people you have their

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but they can't execute in Germany

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so they all end up leaving or they give up and go back to their corporate jobs they can't execute their ideas in Germany

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regulation I mean we have they're pretty strict even though you have the biggest Market as far as Bitcoin is concerned in Europe

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yeah it sounds quite contradictory can you elaborate that further

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and in Germany it's extremely protective of like

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the old industry and the old money so they just don't want the upsets coming up

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there so even if you have like a lot of potential and a lot of smart people also like

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before Bitcoin if you just talk about the internet in general

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how awesome have people in Germany where are the internet companies from Germany

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not there the people left to the US for example where they actually

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can build their business

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and nowadays of course um like with us and also like orbit is increasingly moving over to Asia

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focus is like

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HR is more like the golden place to go to for entrepreneurship

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and how about Vietnam

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um because if you decided to come to Vietnam that's mean there is something attractive here

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regulations is not as strict as in Germany or opportunity or what is it

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different with the regulations in Vietnam I mean we have been engaging The Regulators they also to close to 10 years now since 2014

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um it's all about that I mean they are not in a hurry really to implement any regulations and

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Vietnam is like a country which is

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compared to like a lot of Western countries

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there's still like a Primacy of

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the politics of like the government there was like a Western countries where the government often just like

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execute what

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the big money basically wants

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um

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which also means like Vietnam has different objectives there so they are not necessarily trying to protect like

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the big Corporation in the first place they're trying to protect the power of the government and then they look at you and look like

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okay are these guys

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beneficial for for us basically or are they a threat to us

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and depending on this they are looking how they basically engage with the people regulation wise Vietnam right now is orbit has

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that

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not much in place besides like protecting um

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the the currency there for like the payment spot

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but it doesn't mean that people can run completely wired there I mean like if there's like any of these large scams going on

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and the government see this is like a potential for like social unrest whatever it makes bad headlines make the government look

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then they will crack down on it

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so they will find ways basically

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come after you if you do a lot of bad stuff which you don't like

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wonderful okay I come back um to um in a later round May

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I mean now we come back to Thailand

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um can you share your experience dealing with and government authorities The Regulators The Host

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to

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um Bitcoin as a means of um payments can you share your experience probably with

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I'm paying