good morning well um this panel will last approximately 15 minutes and therefore february from now will be hearing from for um Experts of Bitcoin here in our region upon the subject regulatory landscape for Bitcoin adoption in Southeast Asia well I don't know um from whom should I start but I would start um with Gordon Albert alphabetically in order um Robert um can you share with us I mean in terms of the way in which you need to work together with government authorities as well as well as regulations because Bitcoin seems to be alien for those people especially of conventional you know um regulators and so on can you share with us I mean how have you been interacting with them especially last year when there were several incidents happened to digital asset industry  yeah sure so in in Vietnam I can talk a little bit about it uh maybe I'll put some context around it and probably talk a little bit more of how we do a little bit more on the west and how that kind of comes into how Vietnam would kind of look into that um so I'll start off with kind of how Vietnam would look into it so Vietnam looks into it as it is something that's there they understand it they know that it's um the people that use it right so buying and selling is is okay uh everything else which you see is is uh exactly what they say so anything that's received right is illegal right so it's the same thing like any other country you can't go into say Thailand and say I'm going to go buy something with US Dollars it's exactly the same thing right but if you use it as a method of  for what we do in new Trump a is like we'll go and say you're taking Neutron pay is a method but at the end receiver is always going to receive that currency so in this case Vietnam would receive that currency all right so that usually helps us regulators and say it's okay with them uh from this standpoint but it is still kind of being examined right so they still look at it and they say we want to figure out how it actually works how we're going to get uh a perfect framework around it so kind of if you look at it there's other Frameworks are around southeast Asia so you can look at like Japan South Korea Japan being a very good kind of indicator because they they were in the industry for a while um and that's kind of how then I'm kind of looks at it in a way right from from my perspective of who we've talked with um and it kind of framing it a little bit more into How the West kind of takes it because I'm from Canada is Canada is really structured right so we have compliance and Frameworks of how digital assets come into kind of Fiat or traditional um is that it's all the same they look at it as it's it's Finance right so if you're transacting with Bitcoin or anything like that they look at it as it's the same thing as you would comply with like AML and kyc processes right so as long as you follow that that follows the same kind of framework and then that will eventually kind of mold into how southeast Asia does it I believe they don't want to look at it as something extra I believe what what we've seen is that they want to do it as Amendment right because if you're creating a whole bunch of new Frameworks and policies that don't apply to chat fee which is what we do every day it's just kind of a complete waste of time so that's that's kind of what I've seen so far is that they they want to kind of amend into what is what we have existing and then kind of roll up uh what we can do with Bitcoin and digital assets thank you very much since you mentioned Japan that this Mrs in Japan has been developed quite substantially um in the past years and can I ask um cultural song in order to share your experience in dealing with The Regulators government authorities who initially they might not have full understanding about what Bitcoin is yeah so my experience dealing with uh the Japanese Regulators I'm based in Japan and I have Bitcoin company there uh and back in 2019 2020 I launched a experimental uh non- 30 lightning based auction platform uh and so the Baseline that you need to understand about Japanese regulation is mount gox so Mount gox happened back in 2014 Mount Cox was uh based in Tokyo   and that was probably the initial uh spark that uh with the fire and the regulators and they decided to come in and so Japanese regulation is very heavily focused on protecting uh uh custody users so exchanges for example  custody user funds and the main thing uh the Japanese Regulators are interested in protect thing is is from is uh H hacks on custodians and from um bad custodians basically like STX for example uh last year Japanese regulations were successful in protecting Japanese FDX users so uh interestingly enough that approach Works however I believe that uh while we should be striving for a non-custodial uses and uh usage of Bitcoin and these evacuations kind of nudge developers towards that direction uh it it's also true that non-custodial Bitcoin wallets and services tend to have a little more uh unfamiliar user experience for new users users  so uh 1 thing that I wish that Japanese Regulators would allow some kind of exemption for smaller scale custodians so that you can have things like tip Bots or you know very small but uh tangible experiences that get people's first step into Bitcoin um yeah that's something that's very difficult to do with Japanese uh regulations focused on custody right now well once you mentioned about the um um small custodian can you elaborate that term a little bit further I mean what kind of what kind of amount is small medium and large of course so because of Japan's experienced with Mount gox and then after that even in 2018 there were several hacks at Japanese changes um  the custody was are actually  combined with exchange regulations so even if you're not providing services to users where they can buy or tell Bitcoin uh you still need the same exact license that a uh exchange like a big change with need and it costs anywhere between 500000 US dollars to a million US dollars a year uh paperwork and compliance cost  to maintain that license so it's not feasible for small-scale custodians to uh comply with these regulation so I would say it's of course very difficult to uh draw a queer wine where you know this is the line a custodian should be exempt and this is the line where they should comply with regulations but uh hopeful that eventually they would uh   carve out some kind of exemption for uh you know let's say something like twenty dollars per user is fine or 100 dollars per user is fine like that wonderful thank you I'll come back a bit later on um on another topic well let's move come closer from Canada to Japan and now to um Southeast Asian country can I ask you experience Dominic I mean you are German of course but you based in a Vietnam for a decade already can you share with us I mean would be wonderful if you can compare to economies as far as regulations upon Bitcoin is concerned Dominic place  yeah so I think like with the location of our business um we have made already a choice a choice like which regulations we prefer basically so like in Germany everything is like you see it generally in the economy it's not a very friendly place for entrepreneurship  a lot of the big companies we talked about it before in Germany if you just look at the stock market index it's like all these companies dedicates all there's nothing really new coming up and I was also early involved in the Bitcoin Community is over there like Germany I think nowadays again has 1 of the strongest Bitcoin communities in Europe back from the potential from the the people you have their but they can't execute in Germany so they all end up leaving or they give up and go back to their corporate jobs they can't execute their ideas in Germany   regulation I mean we have they're pretty strict even though you have the biggest Market as far as Bitcoin is concerned in Europe  yeah it sounds quite contradictory can you elaborate that further and in Germany it's extremely protective of like the old industry and the old money so they just don't want the upsets coming up there so even if you have like a lot of potential and a lot of smart people also like before Bitcoin if you just talk about the internet in general how awesome have people in Germany where are the internet companies from Germany not there the people left to the US for example where they actually can build their business  and nowadays of course um like with us and also like orbit is increasingly moving over to Asia focus is like HR is more like the golden place to go to for entrepreneurship  and how about Vietnam um because if you decided to come to Vietnam that's mean there is something attractive here  regulations is not as strict as in Germany or opportunity or what is it different with the regulations in Vietnam I mean we have been engaging The Regulators they also to close to 10 years now since 2014 um it's all about that I mean they are not in a hurry really to implement any regulations and Vietnam is like a country which is compared to like a lot of Western countries there's still like a Primacy of the politics of like the government there was like a Western countries where the government often just like execute what the big money basically wants um  which also means like Vietnam has different objectives there so they are not necessarily trying to protect like the big Corporation in the first place they're trying to protect the power of the government and then they look at you and look like okay are these guys beneficial for for us basically or are they a threat to us and depending on this they are looking how they basically engage with the people regulation wise Vietnam right now is orbit has that not much in place besides like protecting um the the currency there for like the payment spot but it doesn't mean that people can run completely wired there I mean like if there's like any of these large scams going on and the government see this is like a potential for like social unrest whatever it makes bad headlines make the government look  then they will crack down on it  so they will find ways basically come after you if you do a lot of bad stuff which you don't like wonderful okay I come back um to um in a later round May I mean now we come back to Thailand um can you share your experience dealing with and government authorities The Regulators The Host to um Bitcoin as a means of um payments can you share your experience probably with I'm paying so so the keyword is Bitcoin is a mean of payment not Bitcoin itself so um actually I act as um independent board member in a license changed in Thailand and also offer the consultant and um  so so um  I think what they see is Bitcoin is just 1 asset as as um every other country and 1 asset that can be listed on change but I think it's kind of a good thing for the bitcoiners that they don't see it as a mean of payment yet um I think coin has a lot of layers and and I think it's um kind of long way to go from from 1 the digital asset to become um um a mean of payment when you're looking at Bitcoin and I see nodding um so um so so payment in in any forms like crypto payment in any form is still not allowed in Thailand so um and I think it's because of the Regulatory and because it's hard to trace however um I know that a lot of people did battered in usdt I mean among our team we have this crypto platform going on and we pay each other in usdt and I think it's friendly payment like this is fine right like you pay me lunch and I give you usdt because this is like I think people um I think you see a lot of layers here you start to see people have a lot of wallets like I have a lot of wallets I have Thai bad wallets I have international wallets I have crypto wallets and and and and people start to  people start to shift from 1 currency to multi currencies and this is where Behavior is going but um if if you if you asking specifically from the regulatory point of view I think it's very blunt that they're not they're not thinking this as a mean of payment at all at all but like every country in the world a lot of times you need to influence from the outside in thought to have this movement and then this is 1 of the movement that we're looking for and um and I think a lot of people actually majority of people  people who have Bitcoin um they think of Bitcoin as an asset so we don't like a thing you know to keep in your wallet because somebody will buy it and it will go up and it's a good investment but um but you see a handful of people that see Bitcoin as um a philosophy away of how money is supposed to be of how we exchange and and and and very few think that Bitcoin is a super deafy system decentralized Finance as in a way that you  decentralized in financing you Bitcoin is a financing tool that decentralized and this is the concept that that people a lot of people miss and I think in order for the regulations  go for um seeing this as a mean of payment you we people we small people need to understand that this is not just an asset it's good to keep it's good to have but it's also um  the mean to finance its it's the we have a very my personal opinion a very pure concept of decentralized Finance right now because like a lot of times when you look at the pause the crypto projects that talking about Defi and they don't actually financing a lot so um so this is 1 of the thing that that if this concept can be adopted by  some not even Mass adoption some adoption I think that could change something but for the time being I don't think Regulators would even think of Bitcoin as a mean of payment or any cryptocurrencies at all   I try to look forward because I think that our ultimate aim for the type being is we wish to have the Bitcoin as a means of payment to be accepted in the society are there any kind of um economies which can be regarded as the model that both the convention um means of payments and the Bitcoin as means of payment can coexist together harmoniously through a dream kind of regulatory framework anyone of you would volunteer to to ask because I will ask all of you anyway will be the first  yeah hey for Albert  so this is going to be a a little bit of a controversial kind of discussion like this is just my opinion so what I call Bitcoin in kind of how I frame it with kind of my employees and kind of how I talk to people is Bitcoin is the DMZ right it's always going to be this middle ground and it's never going to have well it's not never but it's not going to have a specific point of view that we see today meaning like in today all we look at is currencies and Fiat right it's been around for hundreds of years and that's where we're going to use if we're trying to wedge something that's very new uh and Technology Way more advanced than what we're doing today that's not going to slide in very easily right so that's why I I refer to it as a DMZ because we can play on both sides meaning that if like say Thailand isn't like it or Vietnam doesn't like it uh we can still play in the middle ground because there's still benefit and they know that the officials and regulars know that there's a benefit to it so how do we play that is we played in the middle so whatever regulatory Frameworks that they have we have to play Within that framework I know a lot of people don't like that because there's a lot of people are hardcore Bitcoin people and they want to just have full Bitcoin and we'll get to that point like I think eventually uh there will be a world where what I call is like 9010 9010 is 90% of the world we'll still do fee currencies in central back to the currencies or stable coins that's just what they're used to you can't fault people for that because people don't like change but people that do like change will go in that 10% bucket right so Bitcoin will be a currency for them in that 10% area and that's why it's more the DMZ area because you're willing to go and pay for services with Bitcoin so say for example you want to use stats to pay for you know type bot food or something right or or you want to exchange it for Thai baht which is maybe eventually a digital currency um or you want to change it for something else right so that's how kind of icy is that eventually you'll have these  set of people in the world that will eventually maybe want to use Bitcoin as a currency but you can't go to say Thailand and say okay I want to have tabot and I want to have and I want to have stats for something because at the end of the day what you're really doing is your undermining the regulatory Frameworks that hi has put in for a very long time so you have to be able to put uh a means of way to communicating with them properly on their level that they understand to say I'm not trying to undermine your currency and I'm trying to undermine your policies what I'm trying to do is improve it and help you move to the next Generation right of Ste gen Z and if that doesn't look like Bitcoin being spent in in Thailand is there another way that we could do that and that's kind of what we propose that like Neutron pay is when I go to Vietnam is that we say you can transact with stats but at the end at at at the destination like you're going to get like the business of the merchant and the consumer is going to get vnd and that would be the same thing in in Thailand  thank you Dominic it seems that you have something in your mind and upon this   yeah I mean what all but that regarding like the split between like the 9010 after 10 years and there's also fully on board on this I mean we discussed it also before it's like when you start out getting involved you like okay we need to tell the whole world we need to change everything at some point they're like nah I mean there's reasons why certain that's happened why certain things are put in this place and where you need them to focus like on the people who actually get it um and that's also what where our Focus has shifted these days so it's you work with the people who get it you put the info out there and the people will find you that's good enough thank you um could um got a lot of things to say regarding that the thing is um even though I think Bitcoin built for the mean of payment I'm not going to use Bitcoin as a mean of payment I'm going to keep it  for sure like you're not going to get my Bitcoin so um so um I think it's valuable and I'm going to keep so so so this is like 1 of the regime that okay what I can say is Bitcoin payment and and and and Fiat payment 2 of these do coexist in Thailand  though Regulators don't agree  um so so you you asked for the way I mean how how they work together I don't think they they work together but they're together  so and um so so you see this because B is fine you bought a Bitcoin for B and that's fine so so you exchange and and and that's okay but I don't know to what extent revenue department will come and say why don't you declare any Revenue why you just like set up business to barter um so so there must be a point you know but but they do coexist but but from my point of view is I don't um I mean I keep my Bitcoin so uh so so that's another way I I think Bitcoin  sleeper is played as I said and bitcoin's play as I said by big guys you know big Capital big invest so when you look at something that might appreciate in the future that actually  counter the purpose of Bitcoin itself because you don't you don't drag taibat up and you don't pull it down the way you did with Bitcoin because the and mentality when you see assets and fears like totally different so um I think to to coexist to to be to be as a mean of payment you need more than just the technology or or how how Bitcoin facilitate but it's a mentality of people including investors and people who are using them like me um I don't think it as a mean of payment a bit of satisfying but a lot of bitcoin's not fine so um so so I think there are lots of um moves before we get there   move some moves before we get there so I mean next question I'll ask um everyone of you what kind of steps should we do in order to achieve the adoption of Bitcoin from The Regulators let's come back to the coexistence of um Bitcoin as means of um payment and the um means a payment yes of course um I think we can all agree that uh bitcoin's use as a means of payment still very tiny compared to uh bitcoin's use as kind of an asset or of value and I think this is 1 of the main reasons that uh regulators and regulation is  uh focused on the asset side of things and uh the only way that Regulators would be compelled  to update the regulation or to take into consideration this uh dual nature of Bitcoin  is to increase its use in payments and so I think what's most important uh as a business as a lightning payment business or or even you know as developers of such businesses is to uh get as many people into um trying out whitening for the first time or using Bitcoin for payments uh because once enough people once there is enough momentum there even The Regulators would see okay so current regulations are focused uh 2 Hardware on the asset side of things and not enough on the payment side of things and there will be uh compared to queer that up   well once we mentioned about the adoption of Bitcoin I mean of course it has to do with the regulators all of you I mean put all of yourself into the regulators what are the real concern about the adoption of Bitcoin as a means of payment because before we go ahead and convince them we need to anticipate and understand what do they have in mind that do not allow Bitcoin to be means of payments um who would volunteer to be the in this because all of you might have interacted with them um in the past years already what do they have in mind what are their statements when they mention to you about Bitcoin as a means of payments uh so at least in my experience uh in terms of payments they seem to be most concerned about money laundering and how many laundry yeah  uh  at least in my case the values are very small uh because it's a non-custodial uh  Oxygen Service that I developed um only takes a very small deposit it really wasn't a problem but uh you can easily imagine um people are using uh this uh purposes that The Regulators don't really want them to and uh give him bitcoin's nature it's very hard to prevent that so  I expect that's 1 of the things that The Regulators would be most concerned about uh if  uh adoption for payments increases  um Dominic I mean the main concern of The Regulators mostly protect that like with their country wherever they are placed that the country is not like  50 rice or whatever currency they are using their basically that not suddenly their currency somehow stops being in circulation because I mean gives them a lot of power if you can print the money of like a certain area and you can get people to do stuff for basically free of course you want to keep this privilege and you don't want that suddenly this Bitcoin has come in there and like kind of Notch this away that's the same reason why Vietnam for example doesn't want the people use dollars or any phone currency because like if people start suddenly using foreign currency you can't give the people your local currency anymore to do stuff for you so that's the main concern of The Regulators making sure that like people used the currency of the specific country so that like not the power structure gets undermined  thank you Albert  yeah Dom's correct it's it's more  The Regulators never want to be in a position where they are undermined in any way right cuz these are the people that actually write the foreign policies for for the country itself how it rolls out and how you know Vietnam people actually use the currency right so their concern is not a lot about I I believe in my opinion when I meet with them it's not about uh the money money laundering aspect or or you know um all these other things because that's the norm right that that just happens normally it's more or less how do we make sure that it's it's well thought out and how do we put it in together if it's going to be used or not right um because they look at it as they want vnd to be used that that's the currency of the country and that should be used and that's the same thing for every other country right is that you never want to use someone else's currency in your own country right so don't put a perfect example of that because if you look at say for example like El Salvador right they accept 3 currencies meaning they accept the peso US dollar and Bitcoin they're very open but from a regulatory standpoint that's a that's a nightmare right cuz you're building policies for a currency that isn't yours USD obviously it's a Global Currency and then you're building another currency what's their betting on which is Bitcoin right that's a very very unique uh situation but for any other country I don't think they'd want to take that step because like every other country they don't want to be the first 1 to be shot right so you're stepping through the door do you want to take that risk do you want to be that particular regulator or government official that says hey I've let this through and it has gone completely sideways right wrong way it's completely undermined the country it our currency is now inflated it looks stupid in front of the global stage no regulatory wants that right so I think it's just very sensitive how  that that's brought in and how it's used and so it's kind of like I've always said it's it's more of an amendment and kind of use the currency first and then see how we can kind of use uh Bitcoin leader  could me I think that you might have talked to them by the way can I ask do they understand what Bitcoin has a mean of payment is I think they do they do okay I think they they do the concept here's the thing they feel regulators so you look like I agree with all of you um just said like you look in  Central Bank B Bank of Thailand um look at that if I were Bank of Thailand I want to control thaad supplies and demands and make it stable so if you have another currency fluctuating the country and it's like I have lot I I would lose control of taibat then people might not want type bad anymore then what then um then we we Face a lot of problem and and Bitcoin market cap is high and it can be higher and it can be higher because we got like a lot of decimals so so so we can use like decimals satoshi's to to pay for so it can be as high as you want so um  so from from the bank um central point point of view  yes they will understand I think they do understand the smart bunch of people and and way way so smart so um but when you look at that SEC you're looking at how you invest and and this is is this dodgy too I mean I mean SS is trying to control and people see we start to imply tax regulations and but sec I don't   because they look at Bitcoin as an asset from SEC point of view right as an asset as an asset okay investment asset investment asset so they have kind of investment mindset to control Bitcoin and when you look at amlo they'll look at Bitcoin at mean of payment for sure right from that perspective of course from that perspective money laundering organisation yes okay yes so um so yes they will see for sure Bitcoin is a mean of payment and they will see cash as a mean of payment also  but I think that they don't they don't I mean for these people um yes the the involve a lot in in the Bitcoin industry in the crypto industry in Thailand and and yes the C Bitcoin is the mean of payment but I don't think they have um Authority or any power to push directions of Bitcoin but but these people for sure Implement um ways  to see um abnormal transactions per se well um in the recent months or even um last year I mean it was not a very good year for digital asset there was some incidents and of course several governments in the world try to you know impose more regulations and control over digital asset but of course not many of them ban that's been there still open the door for the adoption of Bitcoin so what kind of um conviction that you need to um Jews in order to convince them to adopt Bitcoin even gradually more and more in the future that mean that this to allow it you know yes but they don't these are all wide open they're simply opened at all it's a bit but  in this particular situation what kind of argument that we can do in order to push forward for the adoption of Bitcoin as a means of payment   Albert uh yeah so for a means because they don't shut the door yeah like this is where I think a lot of people might disagree with me I think you might disagree with me a little bit too um I'm always the thought of you have to spend Bitcoin right because the reason why you need to spend it is because that's how you're going to get it to everybody else who wants to use it right and people start thinking about it as a means of payment because if you just hold it all right nothing against you you can hold it to as well but if you hold it you're just speculating because at the end of at the end of the day anyone who says that they're just holding it and they're not going to sell it when it's 300,000 or a million dollars you're telling me you're not going to sell it everyone has a life to live everyone has bills to pay everyone has a family to take care of when you sell it what you're doing is you're just doing speculation  but if you're on the flip side of that and you're actually spending it and you're showing other people to use it that has a bigger Network effect across the entire globe because you can be buying something from someone from Germany Japan Thailand right if I'm from Vietnam that improves somebody else's life that means that they're willing to go and do the same thing for somebody else so as soon as you change somebody's life or a group of people's lives they'll just know that that's the type of currency that they want to use as opposed to like you know Fiat currencies right so I'm not saying that I'm you know against you know uh like it may sound like you know I'd rather use Fiat currencies and not use Bitcoin but  kind of back to back and forth but the the messages is that if you want you know Bitcoin to be used as a payments you have to spread it out and you have to use it regardless of like if there is regulatory issues that come in uh you just have to be able to play Within that field   I guess not play but have to be compliant right and just say if we're doing it correctly we're doing it correctly because we've talked to a regulator and they say you can do it like this and that's how we'll get through right I think it's you can't rush something that's been in place for hundreds of years you can't just say hey because bitcoin's been around for like 14 almost 15 years now you could we can't just say we're going to wedge it in that just doesn't work right you have to be able to explain it you have to explain why it's being used why people want to use it and then how that actually complies with actually today's regulations and how that kind of molds together I think that's as soon as that starts being more of a conversation you'll see that door open a little bit wider and wider and because their thoughts kind of ideas of what Bitcoin is start to change because now you're molding it into the actual everyday use of other currencies that that's how I think it will work thank you Albert Dominique please yeah I think for the payments but we also need to look at where we are actually using Bitcoin as a form of payment so like in store payments I know it's like very nice gimmick and like we have like 10 years ago in Frankfort running around converting some pubs but that's not where Bitcoin has its strengths as a method of payment I mean we can see it in Sago and there's like a few shops which we have converted and even a Bitcoin meetups nobody pays with Bitcoin people just pay with cash they they keep their Bitcoin but there are other places in the internet where paying with Bitcoin paying with lightning is a much better experience so you are not doing it just out of ideology that you pay because like if I pay in person cache is more Anonymous than Bitcoin so if I don't want to be tracked I use cache  um  while on the internet if you have like lightning or like credit card into all your details and then probably the merchant at some point gets hacked and all your data flowed around this is sending over some stats and done settled in seconds that's where Bitcoin really shines as a currency so whenever I have option to pay in Bitcoin on the internet I'm doing it because like that's just the better option purely pragmatic of you because like with ideology you're not getting the people over you need to deliver them something which improves their lives make it better make it easier make it faster make it more secure  internet as well like Bitcoin as a payment form in my opinion if set up right outperforming everything else  please well a few questions to be answered actually I agree with Albert of people spending Bitcoin it just like from from the mentality point of view I bought this Bitcoin and then I have to spend the Bitcoin that I bought it's just like so it's kind of contradicting and um yes we do have but we we do have ways to earn Bitcoin right  for for not from not buying it like mining or or even we have this product in our team called Kurt and he's going to be on the stage in um early afternoon um so so we're talking about the money in the pool and it's like demand and Supply so so you can put certain money certain coin in the pool and then and then you get certain um it's not interest because it's not fixed but it's by depends on how we how we um  how how we collecting fee on the transaction so so from that from Bitcoin that   could possibly earn I'm happier to spend and um so to be kind as a mean of payment there are layers of of how how people behaviors going to be and another layer is regulations and actually even Thailand's not allowed crypto payment not even usdt but some countries do accept usdt and um but some other countries do except um means of payments like this so I see some companies um they have all the setups outside but selling products Within the country so so there are ways around it um I'm not that recommend that way but there are ways around it that you can bypass certain laws and and you're not guilty of anything so so the ways to do it but like Albert say um in order to get everything to coexist we need to spend and and I think what if you feel uncomfortable spending Bitcoin that you just bought um ways you know mining or or any way um or or investment in the poll or certain things that that help you earn Bitcoin along the way and that's going to be  more money like  and I think that could make people feel more comfortable  cutter song  yeah I think uh well I I agree with the points made about uh payments and where they're appropriate and where they're not and how important uh payment adoption is for uh Bitcoin to be before we understood I suppose and I think I guess kind of expanding on that you need to think about the different um topics that come up when you're talking about uh Bitcoin as a competitor to other invest investment assets as a competitor to uh other National currencies and as competitor to other payment rails  and um I'm pretty sure this is true in all of the countries were based in but um   you know traditional payment rate of you know have been uh improved I guess some people think uh some people think cash is King obviously but you know you can go to the store and scan a QR code or you can you know uh text people money and you know there are all these uh competitors uh in terms of payments and  Bitcoin definitely has its advantages like lightning you won't as a merchant you will not get charged back so credit card fraud is a huge thing and often the merchant is held with uh first the whole take the last uh the word out to the people who want to be paid in um and Bitcoin who want to earn Bitcoin um  first in order to have the good experiences you know not not the coffee for Whitening experiences I mean International payments or  uh International remittances are also quite uh tedious at the bank so   thank you I think we have uh approximately 6 minutes left I don't know whether there are regulators in any of the Asen country here anyway you can raise your hand no I couldn't find anyone but um I wish to ask all of you if you had a chance in order to talk to the policy maker a regulator to convince them  concerning the adoption of Bitcoin as a means of payment what would you say to   do it   um I'm sure they're thinking the same thing is you know uh the thing I would tell them is you want to look at your country's future right so you want a future proof  which you can uh because in today's world we're driven by technology I think everyone knows that I think if you look at your phone today and you hold it up you know that we have a phone every 8 to 12 months something new there's a version that's coming out right and that's going to exponentially keep getting faster and faster so Moore's Law is just being broken now right so we're doing things that are very very Advanced and very fast and from a regular sense uh regulatory standpoint like I would say to them is money is going to be in that direction anyway alright today I think everyone can agree is that we see all our money digitally anyway right and so having Bitcoin within that kind of system that we have is it going to be any different than what we see today probably not right and people probably don't even really care to tell you the truth right the only thing they really do care about is the value that it comes with so say if you know Thai baht is able to move very fast through lightning rails without the person even knowing and they can send money instantly across cross borders anywhere they want whatever they're buying whether it be a product or service wouldn't that be valuable to say that I think that would write so for example like in Vietnam that's what we would do so you know I would tell them from a Vietnam standpoint is everything is about Import and Export the the faster you can get the money in more faster the efficiencies of manufacturing Supply happens businesses are happy customers are happy and what that equates to is what they want to hear is increase the GDP the only thing they want to hear right and so not maybe not the only thing but those are 1 of the key pillars that they'd like to hear and so that's that's what I would ask him is just make sure your future proofing the business I think is a technology that just needs to be understood a little bit more and then how we kind of molded in together  Dominique return yeah adding on to this I mean situation of course also helps this argument because we can see the last few years especially how like  the dollar and the international Swift system is basically weaponized like okay don't trade with this country otherwise like cut off all your ties like Bitcoin solves this problem so like if then somebody comes along you don't need to is brics currency and this weird settlements with gold back and forth you I mean right now Bitcoin is probably too small to facilitate this on a large scale but generally if this trend keeps up within the next 10 years then yeah you can just move Bitcoin around you still can you trade without any party country like weaponizing their financial infrastructure their currency against you  thank you thank you Dominique  yes I uh I 100% agree with that uh opinion bitcoin's about transcending uh Nations States it's a cross border but not just cross border but uh this includes things like uh coalitions that sanction each other oh okay and ultimately you know we as people want the trade we want to have better things good things you know food whatever and uh if uh if Bitcoin can facilitate that I think that's a plus you know it's a huge benefit  thank you so normally we call it lady first and now lady last okay I'm going to say it's not as scary as you think um you you can do it when when you can choose to do it before a lot of people you know Mass adoption and you don't have a choice but doing it so right now it's small number of people it's small transaction manageable is understandable this is something you can learn together because this is inevitable and um so no it's not as scary as as as as their thoughts be and then and again I'm I'm going to talk about our Dream Port that cock when you have Bitcoin core banking system you reduce prefund which is a pain for the banking and Institute  by over 10 times you reduce setup costs by 5 times meaning that money institutions core system the system can be set up very fast very quick very efficient and reduce money means that you will see the growth of this of the economy like like everybody said and you will see people um spend their money wiser and on top of that you get good branding for the country   wonderful I mean it seems that we I mean agree I mean if there is no Regulators here yeah I mean it seems that all of us agree that Bitcoin is Future  it's manageable it's more or less transparent decentralized and it's Unstoppable  so let's think about the official adoption of Bitcoin so thank you very much for a contribution from the 4 panel on the stage please give  uh give them a big round of applause    we actually have a time for questions oh we have time for the question uh only 2 minutes so we we maybe able to do just 1 question uh if anyone in room want to raise their hand probably not that's why we have slido what can we see you that's why I'm here I'm here  okay all right so these are the questions with the most uh votes uh yeah we can go with the first 1 do you think government is not good enough do you think government needs to allow uh the use of Bitcoin as a mean of payment in the country for it to lead to reach Mass adoption   anyone of you will I don't think so um bitcoin's been doing its own thing for like 14 years  uh and that's why I call it like like I said I call it the DMZ and so regardless if if if it's not adopted or not it's going to find its way um and I think if you watched like Andreas Antonopoulos videos he's a very huge big Corner educator uh very good to to watch and kind of learn more knowledge is Bitcoin is a sewer rat it will survive anything you can keep throwing stuff at it you can regulate it that much as much as you want it's going to find a way out and it's just going to uh grow into something I think uh I believe it's going to be a lot bigger than what we think         right so for me I don't  I don't think Bitcoin was born to ask for permission so um so no I don't think government needs to allow that to happen people do it anyway people doing it now people paying for this conference on bitcoin so um people doing it now and um so do government need to allow know but it will make everything far easier but um no I I think people do it anyway so that's my answer I like that   I think especially in places where you have very pragmatic societies like Vietnam and certainly quite a few other Asian countries I mean it's not needed at all I mean people also safe and taller or cold or whatever without being sanctioned by the government that hey that's what you should do it's just people looking out for themselves and their families  and if this is the better option for them and their families they're going to go for it    any contribution from you know fine   several times for another questions or um actually we ran out of time but um  does anyone in the room wants to yeah that's 1 backpack and can we have a microphone  let's get some participation right for the second questions on the poll that has already been answered in the talk so we're just going to skip that for now          it's a bit hard to get to            hello hello okay maybe I'm wrong but I just want to get a framework to understand how the regulator actually I think   I I think we've been talking about what     uh the reason about Bitcoin but from regulatory point of view I'm not I'm not 1 definitely but um we we not giving them like what what are they going to get from that are they going to get extra revenue from call transaction are they going to get extra tax for that is kind of like for them it's going to be a loser loser Fair you either lose control if we collect Landing taxes a lot or you're not getting anything if its success are you going to be like the first country to adopt it and could become a full and a loving stock for other country so I I think as as a community we have to show them  what they can get   it is is that the live framing or is that what prevailing in the currency to action I don't know I'm I'm speaking my mind     so that is um a statement rather than a question that anyone want to contribute to of that statement further could we I'd rather answer to that   um even though Regulators want entity but I believe that Regulators should do things for the best of the country  and um and and yes Bitcoin is not going I mean this is not something we need to control this is this is something we need to let go  uh-huh and um so so yes we've been controlled for so many years but um we should start to see how you let things go and how things can progress from these movement onward and and I think we can't use I mean I'm saying this is The Regulators um the mindset of 30 years ago to imply to what we have now  I think a pretty good comparison is also like the upcoming of the internet so like Vietnam there was also like long discussions how do we deal with this because viously and it makes Regulators feel that an is you're giving up a lot of control of the information Space by allowing your people to access the internet  but then the conversations concluded yeah but if we don't get on it like  our economy is just isolating itself and we can't compete anymore and that's not beneficial for the stability of the country in the long run too because if we remained in some like poor Backwater gets easier for outside powers to come in so  yeah we kind of have to go with the flow and try like  control it in some way  But ultimately we have to adjust to the times  yeah and going back to the point earlier on sanctions uh I do believe that Bitcoin enables less friction and less friction is more better efficiency better efficiency you know better economy and I think as  uh Economist compete  you know even that marginal gain can make a big difference in terms of uh the citizens you know life and ultimately that's what Regulators should be aiming to maximize I I know that Regulators might not really want to give up potential but you know uh that could end up being a viable strategy uh to gain the upper hand in international competition   okay wonderful it seems that the time no longer allow us to go further so big round of applause once more for the 4 um speakers on the stage thank you very much and I now hand over the stage to coneria